Curse

Lordhelmos · Feb 14, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Did Anet just give up on HA? Looks like it to me.

I mean you have Hero Battles, Heroes Ascent, Random Arenas, Team Arenas, Alliance Battles, Competitive Missions (FA, JQ) and GvG. Out of all of these only AB, RA, TA, and GvG are even remotely playable. That doesn't strike anyone on the dev. staff as a problem? That half of the pvp options in guild wars are almost completely unplayable due to balance issues?

Kyrein · Feb 14, 2008, 11:41 AM // 11:41

obviously not

HA is broken to the point of you have to be absolutely 1337 to get started, as almost nobody will take you if you have no rank, and the teams that do will fail almost every time

Chrono Re delle Ere · Feb 14, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

indeed. The rank thing is pure crap. Rank doesn't actually show anything, because it is a grindable title and most of the r5+ guys are way newbyer than a r1 guy. But it's useless to try to find a solution, because it will be never fixed :l

Horace The Great · Feb 14, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrono Re delle Ere

indeed. The rank thing is pure crap. Rank doesn't actually show anything, because it is a grindable title and most of the r5+ guys are way newbyer than a r1 guy. But it's useless to try to find a solution, because it will be never fixed :l

The rank system is not problem why HA is so inactive. HA was active before, and there was the same rank system.
Since Factions and Nightfall HA is being less active and still going to lesser active. But why would Anet really care? Most people already bought their expansions, and they will buy GW2 as well, why? I don't really know, could be they are addicted, or have friends in the game.

ryanbridgers · Feb 14, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I dont see why its such a problem that there are so many sway or heroway groups out there anyways, they are all easy fame. Anyways its always a complaint by many r0-r3 players that they cant find a group. Sure some of hem are as great as a r5+ but those are far and few between. With rank comes experiance, anyone can spike on one but to know what targets to get, recognize other builds and have them mastered and know thier weekness. Everyone thinks the party lead is in full control of every move but most unranked peoplearent aware of all opposing members actions. Unless ofcourse they bought there account on ebay...then its gg lolz nub.

C2K · Feb 14, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Did Anet just give up on HA? Looks like it to me.

I mean you have Hero Battles, Heroes Ascent, Random Arenas, Team Arenas, Alliance Battles, Competitive Missions (FA, JQ) and GvG. Out of all of these only AB, RA, TA, and GvG are even remotely playable. That doesn't strike anyone on the dev. staff as a problem? That half of the pvp options in guild wars are almost completely unplayable due to balance issues?

Its a problem with PvP as a whole. Creativity and building are pretty much dead. In PuGs, you have to play the gimmick because everyone in the PuG is expected know how to play it since its so popular. Guilds find a build and then ride it till the skills get nerfed.

Thinking outside the box labels you a noob, unless it becomes the new gimmick. People want to be able to get teams, so they throw away creativity to learn how to run the fotm. The only 2 PvP games where this is exempt is RA(since Anet now forces people to stay) and AB(where people don't really care unless you leech).

And balancing won't solve this problem. Everytime Anet balances skills, new skills emerge and become the gimmick. Look at the evolution of the IWAY team and throughout its 3 yrs of existence, the skills only changed when something got nerfed to uselessness. It went from 6 Wars-2Necros to 4 wars-2rangers-2necros to ViMWay, back to 4 wars-2ranger-2necros. Then NF came out and Zergway was made.

This build has weathered so many balance and nerfs and it was still the gimmick. The same can be said for Thumpers. And I'm pretty sure B-Spike is still lurking out there somewhere waiting for a skill balance to vault it back into mainstream.

The Meth · Feb 14, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

The HA pugs have NEVER run more then between 1 and 3 of the same cookie cutter builds. We just happen to be on the lower end of that number right now (1).

Shadowspawn X · Feb 14, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Did Anet just give up on HA? Looks like it to me.

The player base has degenerated into button mashing zombies and this is Anets' fault how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

That half of the pvp options in guild wars are almost completely unplayable due to balance issues?

Doesn't have anything to do with balance, it is a culture issue and can be solved only by a reframing of the mindset of the playerbase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

Its a problem with PvP as a whole. Creativity and building are pretty much dead.

QFT.
But the issue is how and why did it get this way and what can be done to correct it. I place this phenomenon squarely on the shoulders of the top pvp'r of this game. They have been privy to much input into this game and the more Anet listens to them the worst pvp gets.

The Real Roy Keane · Feb 14, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

This thread is unlike anything I've ever seen before and provides valuable new insight into the state of the metagame. Please keep it open so that this interesting discussion may continue.

shoogi · Feb 15, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

The player base has degenerated into button mashing zombies and this is Anets' fault how?

Yes, because they caused that to happen. If Anet would have prevented those "button mashing zombies" from taking over by destroying button mashing builds (most notably iway back then), then the player base wouldn't have degenerated into "button mashing zombies".

wuzzman · Feb 15, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

I know a lot of button mashing legowayers

TaCktiX · Feb 15, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

But those button-mashing legowayers at least button-mash on 1 instead of 3, 5, 7, and 1.2.

wuzzman · Feb 15, 2008, 11:06 PM // 23:06

lol. There are no button mashing builds in Guild Wars, there are only button mashing players and the players who are stupid enough to get their ass handed to them by button mashers. When players are complaining about button mashing, they usually are running something that doesn't have diversion (IE there not running balance anyway).

Killed u man · Feb 15, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

lol. There are no button mashing builds in Guild Wars, there are only button mashing players and the players who are stupid enough to get their ass handed to them by button mashers. When players are complaining about button mashing, they usually are running something that doesn't have diversion (IE there not running balance anyway).

So anything that doesn't have a mesmer is not balanced?

Or how about diversion itself, I gues U missed the fact where the skill is probably THE most overpowered Mesmer skill...

Even the Best elites can even disable a skill for 30 seconds max, Diversion CRUSHES them with a 1 minute disable.

No, I'm NOT asking for a nerf, just don't call anything "lame" and imbalanced of the bat...

wuzzman · Feb 15, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

not saying that not running a mesmer is "not" balanced. For the simple fact is that shutdown >>>>>>>>>>>>spam, and if your not running some form of shutdown or compensating it for it in other areas, then you really deserve to lose to button mashers.

There are still no button mashing builds, people just say that to make their epeen feel big. There are only button mashing players and the ones who QQ about losing to them.

Kyp Jade · Feb 15, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

build types in a nutshell

kill
shutdown
defense

balance builds tend to have elements of all three available, and as such can work on most map objectives pretty well

wuzzman · Feb 16, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

well shutdown got chucked into the sea. Your pretty much left with kill or defense builds, which is why the closes HA has ever come to balance is legoway.

Kyp Jade · Feb 16, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

it did because it was niether fun to play, or play against. its still viable, but a lot harder. Most teams pretty much just take a mesmer and he keeps monks low by controlling thier channeling, hardly shutdown but its something

wuzzman · Feb 16, 2008, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I take shutdown over kill or defense any day. really, the game is going to shitz balance wise because of the lack of it.

Shadowspawn X · Feb 16, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

well shutdown got chucked into the sea. Your pretty much left with kill or defense builds, which is why the closes HA has ever come to balance is legoway.

Problem with balanced in HA is there are very few players who can pull it off on a regular basis. People would play balanced if they could PUG it and actually win. I love playing my mesmer on a balanced team but tbh fame wise its a monumental waste of time why take two hours to make a team that has r7-r9 guys who can't snare, maintain an aegis chain, or even make a intelligent decission on what they should be interrupting. You can give people the best build but if it requires to much thinking and multitasking it will fail and unfortunately balanced requires that each player actually have a understanding of the game and some class mastery. Maybe if the top 100 guilds played HA more some skills could get transfered around the community but now its just the blind leading the blind. Getting fame is about as much fun as the 10,000 chests I need to run in pve, its just reduced to pure grind like the rest of GW.